WordPress theme designers and developers too often take an overly utilitarian perspective in designing and developing websites – form over function.
If you stay here, you’ll find yourself unable to charge premium rates for your services and probably facing a lot of frustrated customers that expect their websites to generate revenue.
In this talk, I’ll take WordPress professionals into the mind of the web visitors they should be serving. We’ll discuss some basic, but very powerful UI/UX patterns that consistently get customers dialing phone numbers and filling out web forms.
We will walk through very specific design elements, functionality, and the plugins that should be used on every WordPress website that we build.
Welcome to episode 28 of make the logo bigger when we take marketing directors and cmos behind the scenes of the client agency relationship to help them get better results from their marketing budgets. I’m bill rice, founder and CEO of Kaleidico Digital Agency and with me, as always is Mike Carroll. Head of growth at nutshell SAS CRM. Hey Mike, how’s it going? Uh, same old, same old br. What’s shaking man? Good. Good, good. Hey, I, so in this episode we are discussing how to turn your wordpress site into a lead generating machine. And really what we’re doing is you’re going to help me write my upcoming talk as I go to the word camp circuits. Yeah. Where are you going? Don’t worry about that. So, uh, the first one’s Word Camp Detroit, and then in a work camp Kent. And so just kind of getting my, my speaking gigs going again.
BR: And so I started with WordCamp and this is the topic that I, um, have pitched to the, so I’m going to do all the word camps and then probably do some other digital marketing conferences. But this was always near and dear to my heart. Like I, I love, uh, we’re press, um, and it was important, uh, at a pivotal time. So, I don’t know if everybody knows the story of Kaleidico, but we started a software company, uh, built a Sas CRM, uh, very early in the day and like 2005 for mortgage call centers. And in the collapse, in the mortgage meltdown, we lost all of our clients like overnight. And during that period, as we were doing that pivot, I started with writing content, uh, to pay the bills as we had to get rid of our software engineers. And then, you know, the software, there was nobody to sell it to.
BR: And then, um, kind of out of necessity as I lost my engineers, I had to kind of create the new Kaleidico and it was on wordpress and then sort of built a business around it, so to speak. So, um, it’s anyway, um, I thought it was, I got back into speaking. I would, uh, I would start with the, the word camp and the wordpress community, um, and try to kind of give back some value to them. And so anyway, all that story is to say that, um, it’s a big part of our business. Um, all of our web design and development happens on top of wordpress and we’re a lead generation focused company. And so, um, wanted to kind of,
MC: he was off to my knowledge and skills. Yeah, totally. Finally is all I have to say to that. Um, you know, I always think you should be on the speaking circuit. Uh, you’re a great teacher, my friend. Um, and so I’m super, I’m super excited to that. I don’t know if I’ll be able to follow you around like a Groupie as much as I would like to at least come to Detroit. That’s why I was just about to say I can at least come to the one in Detroit, so make sure I know when and where, uh, where it’s going to be and I will be there. I can’t wait for that.
BR: Yep. It’s coming up. It is, I think the 15th if that falls on a Saturday of, of this month. So. Okay, cool. I’ll be there coming up quick. Um, so anyway, and this one I just kinda wanted to go through. I know this is something that we always talked about, uh, when you were with Kaleidico is we can, and I still believe this and we proved it over and over again. I can almost make any site generate leads. In fact, I just got off of a sales call is difficult, um, with the gentleman. And, uh, he kinda came into, uh, our funnel. I’m looking for Seo Services. And so I was talking to him about what they were trying to figure out and he’s like, well, I was like, well, what’s important to you? You know, is it traffic? Is it leads? You know, what’s, what are you trying to do with SEO?
BR: And he’s like, well, was kind of three things is, um, there’s, um, the traffic, we want more traffic and then of course we want more leads. And then they’re actually working on domain authority, which is a whole different conversation, um, about why maybe you should or shouldn’t be tracking that metric. But, but as we kind of walked through things, you know, and, and I told him this, I got to the opinion is like, yeah, you’ve probably got some SEO needs, but if you’re trying to move the needle fastest, um, I can probably with what you’re doing right now generate leads faster than I can more traffic.
MC: How do people respond to that claim? Because most people, I think that sounds like a pretty bold claim to me. I, you know, agree with you that like, that’s an easier place to start. But unless you’re getting no traffic, but that being said, how did he respond to that? I’m always curious.
BR: Yeah, I don’t, I mean like, you know, like you’re kind of insinuated like most people do. They, they don’t really believe it. Um, but, um, yeah, I mean it’s, it’s a fact baby. You got to even think about it. Right? Cause so, and then we’ll kind of jump into the topic because I want you to build my presentation for me. Um, but, uh, you know, from a traffic standpoint, if you need to build traffic, especially if you do it with Seo and you’re not going to do PPC or something like that, then you’ve got to essentially, um, you know, probe into a black box and guests how to get Google to give you traffic and use. In order to do that, you’re going to have to spend some money to, to build, you know, pieces of content to kind of stick in the testing machine.
BR: And then you’re going to have to hope for some traffic back. And even if you do everything perfectly, there’s a natural time sequence to that because essentially when they put you into the index with that new content or even revise content, you know, redoing an old content, um, you, you got to kind of compete your way up, right? And Google’s doing all kinds of testing along the way. They’ll move and it’s, it’s fascinating. If you ever do rank tracking, you know, they’ll move you up, you know, 10 or 15 spaces and then I’ll move you down and then they’ll move you up and then they’ll move you up 20 spaces and they’ll move it down. So there’s this constant sort of testing that’s going on, um, that has everything to do with kind of the performance of your website and whether or not they’re pogo sticking.
BR: And it’s all kinds of factors that they’re looking at. They’re terribly sophisticated. So you’ve got that process, or you’ve got a bunch of visitors that are coming to your website who think that you have what they’re looking for and all you need to do is take them to that next incremental step to get them to either give you a call or submit a form. So like, which of those two is easy, easier, you know, it’s like, um, it seems logical. It definitely proves out, um, in reality. But, um, but it does seem magical to some folks,
MC: you know, you see like overall conversion numbers on the, on the web. Like, what’s the average conversion if you were to Google that right now? Like you’d probably get a gambit, like a series of answers among which would be like two to 3%, right? Which is accurate. Um, and that’s about average, you know, based on traffic. But sometimes I think what people underestimate to your point is that when you’re getting like very little traffic, often that traffic, because you haven’t done all the SEO work or wherever is like traffic with really high intent because like they’ve managed to find you in some bizarre way or yeah, it’s referral, it’s word of mouth. It’s usually Brandon traffic. And so like those are the easiest people to convert. So like you’re early, you know, conversion metrics should be actually pretty high. And then as you get into the larger traffic volume, that’s when you’re like, Oh, if I can change
MC: 1.8% to 2.2% that I’m, you know, I’m getting 200 more leads, uh, you know, a month or something like that. But yeah, I think that’s the peoples, they flipped the math and it seems, seems odd to them. I just actually did an article for a website and I think there were surprised the answer that I gave them, but they were, um, and I’ll be curious to see what you think about this, but even in the content creation space to that point, right, is what percentage of content are you creating on a monthly basis? Um, that is uh, for the purpose of new visitor, new traffic acquisition versus, um, lead nurturing or answering specific questions, um, focused on our, or targeting a person who’s actually, you know, trying to use your services. So potentially a lead. What, what would you say that split is new traffic versus kind of a lead nurturing or, or somebody that’s already visited your website?
MC: You know, for, for us we view, I think the content equation is like, yes it is an acquisition channel, but as, as from a strategic perspective, we try to focus on content that are actually existing customers would enjoy. So it’s probably something close to like 60, 40, 70, 30 leaning towards the servicing either existing customers or nurturing leads within our pipeline versus, you know, brand new content designed to rank for brand new keywords, uh, for new acquisition. Yeah. Why wouldn’t you use it? We’re simpatico, I said 80%, 80, 20, 80% for lead nurturing, 20% for, for new new client. And even just from one of the cases that I made for it too is like, like why would you, if you don’t need to or you’re not big enough yet, like why would you go all the way to the top of the funnel? And I have, most people don’t have the time or you know, in parentheses, the capital, uh, to wait for all that crap to come down the funnel.
MC: Right. So you want to travel that week in the middle or the bottom as well. It’s worth it. And it’s where I’d like the highest level of competition is, right? I mean, if you’re trying to rank for dog food, you know, good luck. Good luck with that. But if you’re trying to rank for what’s the best dog food for my Akita in the winter time to make sure, you know, cause you know, I think that’s a really clever thing. Like I said, we think about it again in terms of like servicing customers and it’s almost like a philosophy that tends to serve us better and we get new traffic as a result of it. Totally. But the fact that you say to like fundamentally focused on an 80, 20 rule in that regard is interesting to me. Yeah. I mean I’d have to agree. Yeah, totally.
BR: Okay. So let’s get ’em. Let’s get our wordpress sites, um, turned into a lead generation platform. So that the premise here, um, and why I kind of came to this conclusion is, you know, we’re sitting at a, at a wordpress conference, um, and arguably these aren’t necessarily my clients, but there are a lot of times wordpress developers and designers, they’re freelancers. Maybe they, even, they’re connected agencies like we are. Um, and my, my thought was most of them are designing and developing, um, beautiful websites or themes on top of wordpress. Um, but because they’re not actually delivering lead generating value, this is actually something I discovered very early on. If, if when you launched that website, it doesn’t have the capability to really generate a lead, that customer is probably going to be disappointed because even though you told them like, Hey, I’m not doing marketing for you.
BR: So like once I launched this, there’s no guarantees that, that you’ll actually get leads from it unless you’re doing other things. Right. Um, but at the moment in time where you kind of create a platform that’s capable of generating leads, even if they’re not doing it or you’re not doing two things happen, one, you could charge more for your web design and development. That’s hands down. Um, and then number two, you know, potentially you can put yourself in the position to, to offer those other services. Um, so, so if that’s, so that’s the premise. So in order to educate these folks on how to design and develop a wordpress theme that I’ll generate leads, um, kind of what’s that? Um, you know, what’s that checklist look like? Um, and what are those, those particular things that we should be doing?
MC: Okay. So I have one like presentation note that you may find fun or not fun. Um, and then we can jump into the checklist. Right. I think what, and we’ve ran into this all the time, I like the story you just told about, you know, if you give someone of a website and they spent 20 grand on it and then it doesn’t produce lead one, they do the whole thing. It’s like a lost investment even though it’s not by the way, but they do. Um, and it creates a really bad experience. And so many clients that came to us when I was at Colorado, and I’m sure you still have this experience, is like they’ve been burned by another agency and like, or may are they ever so careful about, you know, what you talk about how you talk about it and they just kind of see you almost like a snake oil salesman and that kind of thing.
Speaker 4: When you talk about what actually we’re going to generate some leads for you. But that being said, I think, you know, given the audience you just described, I think it’d be really cool if you were to show them like one of the early sites that you worked on that wasn’t generating leads and what you changed about it to generate leads. And like it will not be a very attractive site to look at. And I have a client in mind, but I won’t name the client here, I’ll tell you offline because I don’t want to be, um, you know, we fundamentally together like quadruple their lead volume by making one tiny change, um, you know, on the website and it was not a good looking website before or after. Right? Right. For that matter. And I think the point there that you’re making is that the first item on my checklist would be, you know, if the objective you’re building a website is to actually convert.
MC: And that’s what the objective of every website, or at least it should be, unless it’s like for an art gallery. Um, then, you know, then the first thing, first thing on your checklist is you need to push from your mind that you know, that pretty is paramount, really not. Um, and then, and then enter into your mind and accept the idea that you need to look for every opportunity to give the user coming through that website, the opportunity to convert whenever they want to. So like, guess a philosophy change would be like the number one thing. I’m much, yeah,
Speaker 3: no, and that’s important and this is something that you, you, you were always kind of pounding the table on it I think is super important is allowing the user to convert when they’re ready. Not necessarily, I’m having this kind of happy day path that you think people are going to take and convert on exactly the right page or the exact right part of the page. Um, when we just did another optimization, um, it didn’t kind of have that three or 10 x, um, sort of multiple, but it did have an incremental effect. Uh, that was positive. And that was just simply having, um, on our blog content, we had a, a form to sort of ask a question, um, low barrier to, to get that form fill and we just had that follow you down the page because our content started to get longer and longer.
BR: And so, um, with the longer form content that we’re doing for SEO purposes that um, you know, that contact form would, would disappear after a couple of paragraphs. Right? And so all we did was just simply allow it, you know, with, with development magic to follow you down the page and always be your companion. And so, um, so it’s just simple stuff like that. Right? Just to your point, I mean it’s a perfect example of your point. It’s like, Hey, wherever in this article you, you run into that question like let’s not make them go back to the top of the page and find that stupid form or even remember that there was a form that allowed you to ask a question. So right. Cause cause cause people’s attention span is way shorter than you think. And like people, I was like, oh, they’ll find it. And like, no, they won’t will flow away. Totally. Totally. All right, so I’m gonna go, go ahead.
MC: Well, I was going to say, no, you go, you, you know, there’s a, I think you’re a nice checklist is going to be the same. So I think we start from like a technical person.
BR: Well, we’ll alternate. Um, so one of the things that I think we often forget, and this is always my first checklist item, is I want to understand, um, and I’m always working from kind of the, the foundation up, right? So I want to make sure I have a good foundation. So just even the fundamental premise of a website, I want to make sure that I have a solid platform on which to do my marketing, but a head of that, since we’re, you know, before that step even, I want to make sure that, um, in order to make my wordpress site work the way I want to, I want the foundation underneath of it to be solid. So, um, so that’s another layer. And I see so many, uh, we’ve run into so many people that are on crap hosting, um, and have just like horrendous performance problems or sitting, uh, on an IP in shared hosting with a lot of bad actors and they’re like, why can’t I get anything to rank?
BR: And they don’t realize that they’re, they’re sitting on a server that’s got 14 other like, you know, just horrible websites, right? Then Google doesn’t like, um, you know, either selling the wrong things or put together the wrong things or have been hacked dinner or you know, bought sites or something. When you’re on this like $5 hosting a beware because you’re sitting on shared hosting on a shared Ip probably. And you could have all kinds of like really bad, uh, businesses around you. Um, not withstanding the fact that the performance is going to be crappy. The service, you know, if anything goes wrong, you’re kind of on your own. So, so I like to start on a premium. Hosting is not that expensive. WP engine of course, is our preference. Anybody that’s worked with Kaleidico code knows that it’s like 25 bucks a month. Uh, it’s ridiculously cheap versus $5.
BR: And you get like a whole world of difference. Um, so that’s important. And then also because a lot of folks are using, um, either, you know, purchased premium themes, um, some of them are actually designing them themselves and that’s a whole different discussion. But if you’re, you know, you want that theme to be solid too. So, um, there needs to be, you know, it needs to be fast, it needs to be mobile optimized and all that stuff. And there’s some, some tenants and elements that that even, and probably won’t go in on this one that’s getting into the weeds, but when you’re looking for premium themes, there are some kind of check marks that you need to make sure our are happening in that theme before you buy it. Uh, because again, if you’re on crappy hosting, your theme is slow and clunky. Um, then that all those performance factors like Google is getting more and more intense with that. They want everything to happen for the user lightning fast. And if you don’t have that, you’re, you’re starting in a hole. Um, so, so anyway, that’s, let’s make sure we’re on a good foundation and then we start to creep up into like actually what we’re going to do on the site to make it convert. So yeah,
MC: and you and I, you know, I like, we tend to go back and forth on this. I think the, you know, we both advocate for using a preexisting theme and when bill and I say preexisting theme, if you’re new to wordpress or you haven’t played around in that space enough, you know, there’s, there are theme makers all over the world that are building thousands of themes. There’s a reason why the like things on the web like looked similar. Uh, and of course the purpose for that is two fold. One thing that’d be hard taught me really early on, which I really, there’s a really good piece of advice for everybody is that one, you don’t want your website to be like fundamentally different, right? The, the idea that of common, it’s commonly accepted or common behavior on the web is like is there for a reason and there’s a reason why orange buttons convert better than, than green buttons.
MC: And there’s a reason why short forms convert better than long forms and why you put a single call to action above the fold or a bifurcated call to I like a good bifurcating call it. Uh, but that being said, if you want to go out and do this fast and do it relatively inexpensively, go out and pick a good theme other than corn. The questions I have for Ubr on the team front is, you know, how do you know whether a theme is a good one or a bad one? My simple non technical answer is look how many people bought it, whether it’s on theme forest or whatever else and how many reviews it has crapped out on. People have bought it and it has solid reviews. It’s probably a solid theme. Well supported, updated, right early. And then all you’re doing is creating and replacing content. Um, if it’s like, you know, you think it’s the perfect theme but like only two people have bought it, I would highly recommend you don’t do that unless you’re a highly technical person and you’re a wordpress developer in which case you could buy the theme if you wanted to and you can hack at it or you could simply just create that theme from scratch or rip it off, which is also pretty easy.
BR: Yeah. This, this can be, this can be tough. I mean there’s some good, for the most part, for the average person, an average website. You probably won’t run into too many problems with this, but there is a, there is a blend between, um, so I would agree with all those filters. The other filter that I would put on there, um, you know, is to get some sense of kind of the sustainability of that, right? You want them to be around. The flip side of that is if you find somebody that’s really sustainable, a lot of people have bought from them, um, and have a good solid sort of flexible theme, then it’s probably got a lot of bloat to it as well. Um, so, um, but it’s going to be the best you can do. And, and like I said with a premium theme, um, that incremental change in speed is probably not going to hurt you so much.
BR: So it’s probably better to go with the big boy on a, on theme forest that has a lot of cells and probably has some, you know, some flexibility. You can also kind of choose if you’re going to go down that route and you’re going to become a equipped to handle that or maybe even your business, building a business on it, um, it may not hurt and you’re not, you know, in the design genre it might make sense to kind of get really familiar with something like a Devi or something that, you know, it’s kind of like a mega seam that gives you a lot of flexibility for design. So, um, and then you can look for some basic stuff like, you know, I don’t know, I’m not going to go into it like bootstrap and some other things in there that, that if you do get more technical, you could actually, uh, be flexible with it. Watch your visual editors. That’s another interesting rang.
MC: And that take forever to load. They are helpful for the market or they’re not helping for the performance.
BR: Well, you’ll be interested in this. We’re actually kind of getting rid of that and we’re, we’re building on Gutenberg, which basically is a visual editor, so, Yup. So, so that’s it.
BR: Oh yeah. So
BR: it’s uh, I mean it’s where we’re pressed is going there. Obviously you can offset a lot of these visual editors. I think they’re, I think they’re in competition with things like, um, uh, oh, what the heck, Squarespace and wix and stuff like that. So, uh, but it is wordpress. Yup. Yup. It’s just their, their visual editor. It’s a little wonky at first and, but now they’re getting better. And by 20, 20, 20, 22, I think it’s not going to be an option. So we’ve got to figure out how to do it. Um, okay. So a couple more things. Um, so you spoke about forms. Forms are super critical. Um, I’m going to try to get as granular as I can on this too. Like I don’t think there’s anything to consider other than gravity forms and maybe it’s what I know. Um, but the, there’s a huge advantage to gravity forms is one, you can create all kinds of very quickly, sort of different forms, different types. If you want to do multistep forms, which is, you know, depending on what your industry is and what we’re working, uh, can be
MC: also that most other like form plugin.
BR: Yup. You can, you can, yeah. You can get in there and design the, the CSS. You could squirt it as many places as you wind, uh, which is super important. As many emails as you want. You can integrate them with CRMs, you can drop it to Google, you know, sheets. Um, so you can kind of push your leads wherever you want them. Um, and so that’s super important. Um,
MC: and gravity forms integrates natively with other tools. Like wordpress, I mean, uh, not mean like a MailChimp or like that type of thing. So like you can, you don’t have to create or multistep, saps and all that kind of jazz. If you don’t have a development team. Fundamentally agree. Gravity forms provides you absolutely the most flexibility and ease of use.
BR: Yup. And you’ve got those drips. You can use AP or you know, to put it in things like Calendly and new scheduling appointments and stuff like that. So super important. So the forms critical you gotta like if you want to do lead generation, you’ve got to be a master of creating an optimize in the form, cause that’s what you’re going to be your primary. Um, although phone numbers, um, if you’re, if you’re smart about it and depending on what you’re doing, um, phone numbers are always going to convert. Hi. Um, suggest something like call rail so you can kind of track those. Um, but um, but yeah, you gotta be a master of the form. Um, and the phone numbers
MC: I’ve never been able to. So the only time I ever get phone numbers to work the right way, it’s usually on the front end, right? Like click to call ads, you know what I mean? That that fundamentally generate leads by the way and the legit phone calls and crappy phone calls for sure. Um, but yeah, but you’re getting success like putting a phone number on the website and making it clickable and then tracking via call or else people are using it.
BR: Uh, yeah, so we’re doing two different things. So for our initial testing, we threw up the phone number for the organizations. Um, and there we do click tracking. Um, and usually we’re, we’re getting most of our calls on mobile as you would expect, and we’re optimizing to put that phone number in the right place. Um, and then, uh, assuming that works, then we’re able to convince the client to, to make the investment in call rail, which is not significant by the way. Um, and then we can actually track, um, sort of the hand punching that number in. Because when you’re in desktop, you know, you’re not going to get that click tracking. Um, so that’s not gonna work. It’s going to fall apart. Plus if you put call rail in there, you can link it back to your actual advertising. Um, and so that’s important. Um, sometimes, but yeah, we’ve, we’ve definitely, um,
MC: have you done the mobile adaptive thing that I just thought of right now off the top of my head where like the form gets replaced by an easily clickable giant phone number on mobile only.
BR: We, um, have moved almost exclusively to mobile adaptive, um, for that in particular. So what we do is we, we moved the phone number to the top, we moved the address to the top, give you room for your fat finger to hit both of those. Uh, and then we also, we’ve had success with this too. Um, we turned the the form into a button. Um, so that if you do want to ask a question, schedule an appointment, whatever it might require a form fill a, it’s not taking up your whole mobile screen. So you can see the rest of the beauty of whatever the website is, um, overlay or a pop up or something. Yeah. It actually goes to a separate page and then it’s a full contact form. Yep, Yep. That way you can navigate back, right. You don’t have to deal with the popup, which is problematic. So we actually go from page to page. So,
MC: and I know some of this sounds like super elementary, I’m sure for some of our audience, but like, I dunno, like a sports question, you know, like stick to the fundamentals. Well, you’d be surprised how many
BR: people know it, but don’t do it or have made the compromise. And this is, we fight this all the time. They were like, ah, but it looks ugly. Like I don’t want to put a form right there. It seems that, you know, obnoxious or whatever. It’s like, okay, like we can, we can make it attractive, but that’s, that’s what your, your user wants to do. That’s what your face it or wants to do. So let’s just make it attractive. It’s not beautiful unless it works beautifully. Totally. Totally. All right, let’s get this. I know you got a meeting here close. So let’s get into just kind of a couple of quick hits. Um, and then you can wrap this up however you want to. Um, categories cause we’re talking about wordpress. I think it’s really important to use categories in order to segment your visitors and create sales funnels. So, um, you know, you could talk in a lot of depth there, but you know, what are those big categories? Maybe their services, maybe their products, maybe they’re just concepts within your business. Um, but make those, um, obvious and make them few so that people can find them and then they can change the channel themselves down the right content path or so categories are super important and helpful. For Second,
MC: I would talk to your sales team about those categories and those categories is to figure out what the most frequently asked questions and concerns are. And then like work your way backwards from what the sales team has to answer and try to like accelerate those conversations when a lead comes in and it creates a nice logical cause. Your salespeople are hearing how do your users are engaging content on our website or, or thinking about how they would like to, and it’s a real fast cheat code organizing your website in, uh, in, in what might not be the most intuitive thing to you as a marketer, but like makes fundamental sense to us was, yeah,
BR: totally. And it’s a real and categories to the is a real easy and fast way to reorganize your whole website and kind of get it performing. The other thing that’s kind of a similar to this as navigation, um, and so we’ve kind of gone down to trying to limit that header navigation to no more than three links and then usually a call to action button of some sort or a phone number. Um, and, and probably the hamburger menu. So we hide a lot of stuff under the hamburger menu. Uh, and then we’d like when it expands to actually offer another form, uh, but you know, putting all of the about and all that other crap on there, you probably need like a product’s link and you know, a, an about link and a contact link and you probably don’t need much more than that. Uh, hide all the other crap you know, elsewhere and then take them down, especially on the homepage, you know, lead them to other places on the page. Don’t, don’t rely on the, the header navigation, nobody clicks on it. Anyway. We’ve done tons and tons of tracking on this and no one clicks on the, on the, uh, navigation. So
MC: yeah, agreed. Furthermore, like, well, we all know from behavior sake that you want to make that first clicks and someone makes it easy as possible because then the second click becomes really easy. So if you want people to dive in deep on your content, which you do, um, then yeah, I like the limited choice because they will click on something. Um, if they’re looking for something, so, and if they’re not, by the way, and they’re not a lead, you want it, right?
BR: Totally. A homepage header, like I said, phone number, we talked about web form, get it right up in the header. If you put it in any of it, anything lower than that, you’re going to lose leads. Um, and image that means something. But I can’t say this enough. Like, I mean, just everybody loves to put a header image in there, but you know, if you’re going to do that, most people are that make it mean something clear copy, tell them what they’re going to get. Like, don’t waste your words up there. Make it just a few things. It’s like, Hey, if you fill out this form, this is what’s going to happen if you want this, where are the people, you know? So super clear.
MC: I would actually say scrap that image and put a video in there. Yeah. So, and when I say video, I don’t mean like a $10,000, like, you know, animated explainer about your business. I mean like a one minute.
MC: At Max video of the founder or of you, the owner of the company, your marketing direct Hoover’s like savviest on camera. And I want to, I haven’t, we haven’t tried this a nutshell. Oh yes. We have actually an Andy Converts it 7%. We put Andy the CO founder and the video above the fold and you know, it increased our conversion automatically and we’d probably doing it wrong cause it’s like an eight minute intro video and people watch it but like it’s not the way necessarily to do it. I think the best way to do it and what I’d love to test is like just a quick like, hey, welcome to wherever you are. This is what you can find that we’re super excited to meet you click around discover, you know, you’ll be able to contact us whenever you need to, Blah Blah Blah and enjoy your stay. And then that simple, making it super personal, like that experience. I have always wanted to try that and I’m yet to do so. So I’m going to advocate it here. Having, yeah.
BR: Well, and you know, just as you were saying that, I was like, Oh, you know why, you know, that works. Cause Youtube, um, you know, they encouraged youtube channels to have two videos actually, and this would be even better to test, have a new visitor video and then have a returning visitor video. Um, and so youtube obviously tested the snot out of that and they tell all their creators to do that. So, um, so I would advocate that and you could probably do that real simple on the website is like, hey, you’re back. Like, you know, I know your back. Like how can I help you at this time? You know, so something like that,
MC: right. Then pop a chat at the bottom and now he sitting here like you’re driving someone into account. Yeah,
BR: totally love it. Um, okay. Landing page template construction, I believe in, in templates, especially for landing pages. So there’s consistency there. Um, and all the things we kind of talked about and then kind of the last thing, um, and you
MC: on the little page thing that I would say and I’d become a bit of a more of a believer and you know, I hated it at first. If you’re doing a lot of ad work and you like want to test landing page, use a tool like unbounce or something, there’s a plugin for wordpress. By the way, since we’re talking about wordpress, you can flow those forms into CRM is the same way you can gravity forms, you can ab test and if it’s, if it’s for pain. Now if you’re building landing pages for Seo, do not use on bets. But if you’re building landing pages for paid campaigns that you want to test and track and UTM parameters, all that kind of good stuff, it makes it super easy to do and you can iterate very quickly and you can create those templates and they’re not the most beautiful landing pages. But once you create a winner or you find a winner, then you can go ahead and like drag that back into the website. And create a nice, beautiful sort of, you know, native, uh, landing
BR: for those particular companies. No, that makes a lot of sense. Um, yeah, for sure. And kind of to that, that point, and you made it, made it before, don’t neglect the sales process. Like if you’re going to take a website and you want it to convert, like talk to your salespeople, understand the sales process, and then make sure that you have good connectivity, um, when you drop that lead in their lap. Right. And so because for most organizations, you’re not really sales readying the leads anyway. So a good conversation with sales that says, Hey, I’m doing this on the front end. Um, and this is kind of what they see right now. And so when it drops in your lap, this is what they experienced. And so here’s how, you know, we should talk about you picking it up and taken it to the next level. So I’m having that conversation and then getting the feedback so you can say, oh, well, don’t do it like that. Like, you know, change this a little bit so that when I get it, you know, you’ve, you’ve sales ready to add a little bit for me. Um, that’s a super good dialogue to have back
BR: and forth and just know that your leads are actually getting handled. I can, I mean, I’m almost nothing to add to that. The more that you engage your sales team when you’re building the website is it, the better it’s going to work and the more it’s going to convert you. You know, if you’re on the marketing team and you guys don’t, a couple of things, one, you’re going to get by and they’re going to be excited about the project and they don’t want to contribute to it. It’s gonna bring your teams closer together. And then too, again, like we always talk about about uniting sales and marketing teams, and I’m a marketer at my core, so, and, but I’m also a sales guy, so, but the marketers don’t talk to customers like you just don’t write your tone ever talked to them. So, so trust the people that talk to customers.
MC: You got to take every single one of their ideas. Some will be Kooky and weird and sales guy or woman, but like you know, focus on what the sales team is telling you and pull the nuggets out of there. You’ll find all sorts of stuff there. I couldn’t agree with that. Totally. All right. What else to add before you got to get out of here? Keep it simple. A website, any website, but he didn’t took our wordpress website, which allows you to do this is don’t come to the table with a, you know, a 45 page plan to build seven sales funnels and all that kind of stuff. Make it simple and then iterate on a website is like software. It’s like anything else. You’re going to invest in it over time. You’re going to learn things from. It gets your tracking in order to make sure you’ve got analytics set up and so that you’re making database decisions and get it up faster so that you can learn something and spend your money on the right things as opposed to a long dating your process and making it, you know, and making it painful for your bosses, for the organization, for the people that are building the website.
MC: Start super simple. Nice.
BR: I couldn’t have landed a better. All right. With that, we’ll wrap up. As always, find us on iTunes and all your favorite places to listen to podcast, share it with your friends. Uh, give us likes and comments and feedback. Um, we love having you here and hopefully we’ve added some value today. With that, we’re out of here. See if I,