BR: all right, we’re here again with make the logo bigger. We’re in episode 25 almost a quarter of a century, a quarter of a century getting DPR read. Exactly. This is probably the longest I’ve done like anything in a row. So I’m pretty, I know I say that. I know I said that every week, but it is kind of amazing for me.
BR: Um, okay, so today I’m actually kind of excited about this. This just kind of came out of a, I don’t even know where I got the idea, but, um, I think, and I’m probably going to try to do more of this where we kind of try to think through what you guys as a marketing director or Cmo, like real practical questions that are kind of hitting you every day. And I think this is one that probably, maybe the dollar denomination is different depending on your size and scale, but I think this is kind of a pretty common use case. And so what we’re going to dig in today to day is given a marketing budget of $100,000, what are you going to do with that money? And I want to break it up into two phases. Mike, before you jump in, cause I know you’re ready to go is the first one I want to talk about.
BR: Um, so that we have like a concrete scenario in our mind is you’re a startup and you’ve got a product, service doesn’t matter. Um, and you’ve just got your seed round or maybe a new round of funding. Um, and all of that new round of funny funding, 100,000 of it’s been tagged for marketing. Um, what do you do with that? If you’re the Cmo of the marketing director, and maybe since we’re talking about startups, maybe you’re the founder of the cofounder, what are you going to do with that first hundred thousand? Uh, better answers are different.
MC: I bet our answers are different. Um, and like it sorta depends wildly. So like we’ll have to make some general assumptions on marketplace, product, you know, staff. Um, so we’ll, I’ll try not to get too much in the weeds because when you told me about the topic, I got excited about it too. Actually, I just kind of went through this exercise. Um, nutshell. Uh, so, but yeah, I think that’s a really good question. And then what’s the second scenario?
BR: And then the second scenario is you’re kind of an established company or you’re running, you know, full on marketing program and, uh, maybe you’ve gone through a budget cycle or whatever and you’ve been infused, uh, with the next, you know, 100,000 of additional budget. Uh, and as we go through that, I think that’s really important because I think the way we’ll kind of dig into that question, the answer it is maybe break down a couple of little mini scenarios cause it really depends on like what you got running right now. And so for that maybe we’ll go through a little bit of a sort of a pseudo like we do often is a pseudo discovery session to kind of ask some questions about the scenario and then we can pivot based on some different scenarios within that scenario on how we’ve used that hundred grand. I think that’s a good plan. All right. And so keeping in mind, just so you guys can do the math in your head, we’re talking about 100,000 over a year, so that’s about a little over eight grand a month. So that kind of bust it down even smaller. So do you want to start or you want me to start?
MC: Well I, I you can start. Um, you know, the one thing I was just going to say before we even get started is like, you know, the first piece of advice is, you know, okay, so you’ve got $100,000 at lands in your lap. Um, depending upon, you know, what kind of entrepreneur you are, what kind of startup you are, that might be more money than you’ve ever seen. Um, or it might not be, but that being said, that $100,000, I like that you broke it down in a month by month scenario will not go as far as you think it will. It is easier to spend $100,000 then like you ever thought possible. And little things add up really fast. But yeah, you should start. I’m kind of curious to see where you would start your discovery process. Like how do we spend this much? Sure, sure.
BR: Say and you’ve got a good point and it will burn down fast. So, if I’m a startup and I’ve gotten a seed round of funding, um, the first thing that I’m going to do with that 100,000, um, I think our mind always shifts into tactics, right? Is we always go in there and we say, okay, like I’ve got to do SEO and PPC and I got to do content and you know, we go into all these tactical things. So if I’m a startup seed round, got 100,000 for the year and that’s all I got. Um, I am going to hire a general list digital marketer who’s got hustle and growth on his mind. And I know with that, I’m going to get a whole bunch of, um, sort of all those tactical things done in a creative and innovative way. And that’s just the way you have to do it as a startup. But the worst thing you can do is if you don’t have those skills as a founder or maybe you do have those skills, but you, because of all the other things that are going on, uh, you need to be doing and focusing on other things, product development, business development and that sort of thing. The first thing I’m gonna do is I’m going to plug a hole and say I’m going to hire the best digital marketing generalist, uh, that I can find a with that first hundred grand.
MC: Uh, you and I are on 100% the same thing. Cause like the first thing I thought to myself, I was like, okay, you know, that your typical situation like, Oh man, I’m going to drop that on PPC. I want to generate leads and um, and know, you know, you’ve got to build the team, a person, an individual human capital is what’s going to give you the largest return. Um, and you should spend the time to find that right person. And, and also it’s going to give you the opportunity to really stretch that 100,000, you know, more than you think, particularly if you’re a startup, right? Because you could find somebody that would be interested in joining your company that might take less salary in replay, in placement equity. Um, and if you’re that young, then you know, that’s a really good opportunity. And if you find that right person, by the way, yes, the hustle is going to be their number one priority because it’s not, they’re just not coming to work because they’re getting paid, they’re coming to work because they want to be a part of what you’re doing and because they want it to be successful and, you know, and it’s almost as much of, um, you know, a notch in their belt.
MC: Um, if it from a professional perspective as anything else. So yeah, I would fundamentally start with, yeah, a top notch digital marketer. That doesn’t mean that you have to spend all $100,000 on that person. By the way, when you get down to the health care and you know, whatever your situation looks like, um, you know, 60, $70,000 salary position, which is a pretty good place to start. Um, it’s going to suck up most of that one. It’s going to gobble up for sure. Sure.
BR: And, and, and so that begs the question of, okay, who are you? Who are you looking for? What are you looking for? I mean, for me, that person has got to be curious. They gotta be innovative and creative. They got to be a self starter, right? Because what you’re doing when you invest that money and them is you’re saying, Hey, I’m going to get a person who’s going to be able to, uh, to, to innovate the system that’s going to become the foundation of our marketing plan and growth going forward. So, you know, they’re gonna be, they’re gonna be writing content. They’re going to be doing a little SEO, they’re going to be working your social media channels and creating a personality and a culture, uh, for your company, customer facing. They’re probably gonna hop on some sales calls. I’m like, like you’ve done and try to kind of understand like what is that customer?
BR: Are they responsive to? What do they need? Um, you’re going to probably try some PPC. Um, so that person needs to be rounded and, and I hate to use this cause a little overworked, but kind of that growth hacker mentality, they’re going to be testing and doing a lot of things and they’re going to be looking for, um, little, you know, little blips in the radar that they can really scale and take hold of. So it’s important to get the right kind of person. Don’t get somebody that’s, um, probably don’t want somebody that’s been at a big company and, you know,
MC: yeah, that’s what I was going to say is he like what you want to get, like, stay away from, and you and I have seen this more often than not. Um, and even as I’ve progressed in my career, I tried to hold on to the thing. Um, you know, that made me interesting to Ubr like, you know, when you hired me in the first place and I had very little digital marketing experience, there’s almost none, you know, when we got together the first time. But when you find a person that like the inclination is like, great, I’m going to spend 80 grand to find somebody that’s held high levels like strategic or c level position in a large company. And that is fundamentally the wrong person to hire because what ends up happening, and it happens to all of this by the way, so like this isn’t meant to be derogatory, but when you, when you run a team of 20, 30 people, um, you don’t do it right.
MC: I mean you, you don’t actually write a campaign, you don’t publish a Facebook post, you don’t write a blog article. I mean you tell people strategically what you want them to do and then you have a whole team to go execute it. You need somebody that is very close to the, the previous position, which is like you almost want to look for a rubber meets the road marketing manager at as like small to medium size enterprise that on their resume they’re like, oh no. Like I, I, I’m the one that publishes to Facebook every day. I’m the one that updates the wordpress site. I know how to build out a campaign in inactive campaign or like use web hooks or whatever else that you want to have that versatile person that’s going to be able to execute the strategy they’d device. It’s a very hard person to find.
MC: By the way. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a sort of a rare bird that can do all of those things, but in today’s world actually it’s probably not as rare as it like as it once was. Because you know, young people coming up and learning all the tactics and you know, and sort of fundamentals of digital marketing, you know, know how to do all of that stuff. Uh, whether inherently, or at least they know how to learn it, being able to learn something. I guess it’s like the number one, you know the number one thing to do that. So if you hire somebody like this, the other thing I would recommend is that you know you do it on a contract to hire basis, right? So like tried to chunk out a little bit of that money. You get a project to them and even if you’re not measuring them on results necessarily, but you’re measuring them on their, their ability to execute because digital marketing of any sort is a trial and error type of thing. So the first thing they try might not work but so long as it’s executed properly, you know that the next thing they try those there’ll be able to do it.
BR: No, I think that’s a, if he hit a key point there too is I don’t remember who or where this quote came from, but I, I’ve heard it and use it over and over again constantly. Like I would trade like the best strategist for someone who can consistently execute over and over and over again. Because those tactics, if you can execute, then you can do that. Well, then you can get to the right strategy. You can, you can trial and error. But if you spend all your time, like strategically thinking, um, and then top down, you spend all this time, effort, money on this great strategy and then it blows up on you. You’re done. You’re, you’re, you’ve got, you’ve got no other resources left. Right? So I need, especially in this context, I need somebody who can tactically execute over and over again, um, and under understands what a test is, understands, you know, what a little traction looks like, um, and then has the kind of wherewithal to, to figure out how to scale.
BR: All right, so let’s move into, uh, kind of the harder question. I think. Yeah, that was true. That was super easy, but it’s totally, I’m surprised we had the kind of the same manner because I think my, and even when I started to kind of, you know, write out my little list here, um, my first inclination was like, Oh, okay. Like we got to make sure, kind of the platforms right? And I’m like, no, no, no. That’s in the context of an established company. Like if I’ve got a startup, like I got to get the right person, right to, to help me out with this. And I’ve even found this in the agency. Um, this is something that just to kind of give you a real life story, um, personal for me is I’ve often got myself into the position because a lot of times clients will hire us for a particular problem or skillset.
BR: And so as a result of that, we tend to pile up a bunch of, um, you know, one off skilled tradesmen if you will, uh, in our organization. And we don’t have any sort of general digital marketers who can put all the pieces together, uh, and think tactically how all those things work together. And so I turn around and find out like, Oh crap, I’ve got a digital agency with no digital marketers in it. Right? So, uh, so we have to kind of refine that. All right, so let’s go to the bigger context. So I’m an existing organization, um, and I’ve been given an extra $100,000. And I think the only way we can kind of do this a good service, Mike, is just kind of go through a little bit of a discovery session. Um, and some of the questions you would ask yourself first in order of priority, like what do I have right?
BR: And as we go down through like, okay, this is sad, this is sad, this is that you kind of, that money will flow into the right bucket if you could kind of think of that as like a flow chart or something like that. So as we go down through that, so what, to me, the first question that I always ask on a discovery call is I want to understand, and again this is digital focused for sure. I mean the general marketing program with some traditional stuff might have a slightly different answer. But when I’m on a discovery call for a digital agency client, uh, the first thing I want to know is like, what is your like home base? What is your, what does your website look like? And what does that cause I’m going to need that, uh, for almost any sort of tactics. So, so that’s, that’s my first question is like what does that platform look like?
MC: Oh, see, I think that that’s a good question as well. I probably start in a slightly different place, although I’m not undermining the importance of that particular question because you know, from the agency side like that speaks to execution, right? Like as the platform isn’t right, then you know, you can’t fundamentally report back results. So, um, but the, the other question that I ask, you know that I would ask of course, I imagine it’s like the second question that you would ask is where are you getting most of your leads from today? And, and, and speaks to the platform question of course, which is do you even know? Um, and so like if the question is, I don’t know. Okay, well then that we revert back to the platform question. If the response is like, oh, I 100% get them from ad words or I get them from organic traffic or whatever it’s going to be is, is start by using this money to improve and scale the thing that’s already working as opposed to trying and going out and finding new channels. I think that there’s a tendency in digital marketing to like, oh, I want to find the new thing, right? Like I’m going to find this little niche area of traffic or channel or whatever else and then I’m going to go, or my competition isn’t and I’m gonna be able to scale it. But that’s highly unlikely. I think it’s more likely that you, there’s a lot of money on the table to be improved, whether from a conversion perspective or a generation perspective in the channel that is already producing the most rates.
BR: Yeah. And that’s, that’s important too because a lot of times, you know, uh, depending on the business who you’ll get referrals, you’ll get a customer loyalty type of, um, you know, inputs. And so sometimes just improving what you’re doing for your existing clients and making them evangelist or even just being able to, to gain additional sales from them I think is a, is a key point. So, um, yeah, you could definitely end up in different places. Uh, you know, if, again, depending on where that those leads are coming from and what’s what’s converting and even just kind of the, the scale your current client base, right. So, um, there’s, there’s definitely right, you know, referral programs out there, client loyalty programs, uh, moving people up into, you know, more robust tiers of your product and that sort of thing. Um, so yeah, that’s a good one or where the leads are coming from.
BR: Um, from there. So when we talk about platform to, and, and maybe this is why I kind of focused there first because we’ve run into this having this problem a lot of different times is a lot of times organizations don’t even in marketing department specifically in these large organizations, they don’t even know, like, where is the platform? Who controls it? Can I access it? Can I do anything to it? And, and I’ve had like two specific sort of scenarios that seem to play out over and over again. Um, there’s one where the platform actually exist and it’s by it and as locked down like Fort Knox. And so it’s completely unusable as a marketing platform. So if you’ve got that problem, um, you know, we may not even be able to help you, you may not be able to help yourself. So that’s, that’s a devastating sorta process.
BR: And then the second one is, and we see this a lot with SAS companies is where that for whatever reason, that platform has become sort of a part of your software engineers additional duties and it’s not really kind of conceived of as a marketing platform. So it’s not necessarily usable. Um, same sort of kind of program is, it’s, it’s often set up poorly. Uh, it’s not focused on conversion and lead generation. It’s sort of just held as a pristine piece of software and that can cause some problems too. And sometimes you’ve just got like people, I guess the third scenario that we run into is it’s just, um, you know, internal heroics. Like, whoever is in charge of, of getting marketing results online at the time has cobbled together whatever they happen to know. And so we end up with people that have got inside of their environment, they’ve got like a custom webs, you know, custom html, CSS. They’ve got an instance of Hubspot, they’ve got an instance of wordpress, they’ve got an a, you know, all these other like tools, right? You know, our kiddos floating around in there unbounced pages. Um, and so, yeah, it’s just, uh, just kind of a cobbled mess. So,
MC: yeah. So I fundamentally agree with that. So like if, let’s take that scenario real quick and like game it out for somebody. So, so if, um, you know, if you get a $100,000 infusion of cash and you know, up until today your, um, you know, your, what do you call it, you know, your website, your platform in general is locked into it’s, you know, custom html and it’s a pain in the butt to change anything or whatever else. Then the first, you know, we’ll call it five to $20,000, although I do not think you should spend $20,000, we can talk about, you know, I think that’s a good thing to talk about in second Vr, but the first five to $20,000 is building that platform to be hyper flexible and primed for, you know, for digital marketing experimentation and execution. Uh, that’s, that’s gotta be where you do it and then, and do it as cheaply as possible, by the way, so that you can save the other, you know, we’ll call it 95 to 80 grand to run like a, you know, a bullseye program.
MC: Some people call it, you know what I’m talking about when I say that. Right. Which is for those in podcast land that, yeah, for those in podcast land that I haven’t heard that term before. Um, a lot of people call it different things. I don’t, you know, if you can remember bill, like what other people call it, but the basic principle is you get in the room with your marketing, your growth team, your sales team, whoever’s like involved in the process and you throw every single idea for lead generation up on a board. And then um, and you take the ones you’re already looking at and then you put them into, into that as well and what’s working, what’s not working. Then you start to trim it down and like a circle bullseye fashion of the things that you like, oh, I know that will work if we do x, Y, z because we have data to do that.
MC: Or I think this will work because you know, industry data indicates that like this should be a good strategy. And then the third level is like, I don’t know if that’s going to work. It’s just kind of like a crazy harebrained idea. And then you start a couple of them up into like little pods or like, I dunno, trunches of things you want to test and you take 2000 to $5,000 and you run these little mini tests, see where we’re getting traction. And when you get something traction, then it moves up the scale from the outer ring to the inner ring and then eventually to the bullseye. And you know, like Shawn Ellis would tell you once you find the one tactic, the one channel that’s working, that’s where you put all your money. Um, I have a slightly different opinion on that, but like, who am I to disagree, uh, with, I’ll drop, you know, the Dropbox, that’s for sure.
BR: And I, I liked that process too because one of the things that I think often doesn’t get done is we don’t, we throw a bunch of ideas out there. Um, but there’s, there’s two steps that you talked about, often gets missed, right? We, we don’t, um, one look at all the ideas on the board and say, okay, what do we have data to, to kind of validate already. Um, or maybe we should, we have the data, but we’ve never taken a look to see whether or not that’s a valid strategy or tactic. And then the second thing is just simply having the test so that you can refer back to an organize, uh, a set of test and move through them, uh, in a, in a disciplined way, you know? So I think those are kind of two key points to that process that, that helps. Um, okay, so let’s move.
MC: So how much do you think, yeah. Well, real quick, how much do you think someone should spend, you know, okay, so you’re going to untangle your custom html site and you want to change it over to wordpress, which I know it’d be both bill and i’s fundamental recommendation that you get your marketing website on wordpress. Um, you know, how much do you think someone should spend to do that?
BR: I mean, I think we’re running into, um, over and over again, so I’m not one to say, hey, we need to blow up and redesigned. Um, in fact, um, all, anytime somebody has problems with their, their digital, um, platform, they just assume it’s, they need a different design. So I don’t necessarily advocate that, but there is quite a bit of work and to kind of sorting through and sorting out some of these messages. So I would say if you’re going to budget of that hundred grand, uh, you need to carve out at least $10,000 to go through the process of getting that platform reorganized. You’re probably going to have to tune up and do some design work to sort of optimize your landing pages and that sort of thing. So, um, even though it’s not a redesign, if you were to do a redesign, now you’re moving into something, you know, uh, we can’t really do a redesign anything less than somewhere between 15 and 30,000 is about what a full website redesign going through a design process, optimizing, building out kind of the customizations that we, we do.
BR: Um, but uh, some somewhere in that 10, $10,000 range, um, you can do a really good job of, of clearing out all the junk. Um, if we’re talking about wordpress, optimizing the way that it performs, going back and looking for where is our strategic pages, making sure that those are optimized, uh, probably involve tweaking some designs, getting our forms right. Uh, so that we have forums and we have call to actions to move to those forms and then we’re tracking them on the goal side so that you can, and you are ready to be able to run PPC to be able to see whether or not your content and your SEO is, is driving lead conversion and all that sort of thing. So yeah, you’re probably that that’s a, without a redesign, you’re still going to spend a fair amount of money to get all that work kind of accomplished and make sure that you’re on solid ground.
MC: Yeah, I think the $10,000 mark is a good mark. And so I would say that like the conversation we’re having now that if lead generation, and we always talk about on this podcast and, and working your way back from like what the objective is. So if the lead generation component, like we want to generate more leads in particular, um, is the objective and then starting with making sure that the platform is in place is a great place to go. And then chopping up this budget to try different tactics and uh, you know, in a methodical way is, is the next step. The only thing I would add to it in the lead generation scenario is to take a portion of this budget, whether it’s $2,000 a month, $1,000 a month, whatever it’s going to, you know, whatever you feel like you can afford to give over to this on a consistent basis and focus on content that that would be, it’d be like the other thing that I would do with this money, and it’s what I’m doing at nutshell now by the way, is I haven’t gotten an infusion of $100,000.
MC: I created an infusion, a six finger infusion by terming other places of our paid budget. And I’m shifting that over to content marketing and Seo in particular. And, you know, it’s a long, we always talk about it as the long con. You gotta it’s gotta be consistent. You gotta do it over time. So if you get an extra 100 grand, then, you know, I would, I mean, me personally, I would take 50% of that and dedicated to content, but I’m, I’m a crazy content marketer, right? Like that’s my Bailey Wick. It’s what I love. It’s the, it gets the gift that keeps on giving, but at the minimum, I mean, you know, 20%, $20,000 over the year, which is like, yeah, we’ll be a little less than $2,000 to at least make sure that you’re publishing, you know, two highly recognizable and in depth pieces of content a month. Um, and going after, you know, the serps that are necessary or important for you or whatever else. I mean, I would definitely make that a component. I was,
BR: that’s where I was going to kind of go next as well because I think, again, this is something that we run into all the time. Um, in order for a PPC or an SEO or any sort of traffic generation campaign to be successful, it has to have a destination. And so often I see clients that have not built out the content to be a successful destination. Right? They’ve got a home page, they’ve got a contact page, they’ve got a product page, but they actually don’t support the decision making process with any sort of content. So I loved what you said. They’re kind of, and this is probably something that everybody should take a note on a cause. This is kind of the best way. A lot of times no one’s just, you know, itching to hand us $100,000, but if you are an existing organization, I can guarantee you you’re wasting $100,000 over the year.
BR: Um, so kind of finding those things that are working, maybe even through that bull’s eye exercise, um, and, and reallocating that budget and saying, hey, that’s not working. We’re going to try something different. And, and shuffling that off to something else I think is a really valid, uh, important idea in concept. But the other replace that you can kind of maybe steal some budget from or get some a budget help from is a lot of times this content also works alongside of sales enablement, right? So if your salespeople are saying, hey, like over and over again I’m having to make this point or show someone that, um, that our solution will do this or get them to understand our philosophy on this particular thing or in understanding this feature in getting that into your, your marketing department to build that content for you so that you can just, you know, send them a link to that page or push them over to a pdf or a video that’s on your website.
BR: I think you guys can kind of combine forces with sales and marketing, get some budget. Um, so that you can, you can really have the content, and this is what I’m talking about more and more. It’s like you need the content to support the decision making process. So if you’re in the B two B space, like there’s probably a committee or a group of individuals that have to get behind a purchasing decision. So then they all need different pieces of a paper and documentation and little forms filled out. Um, and some things that they can kind of compare apples to apples too. If you’re on the consumer side, you know, we mortgage insurance, whatever that might be. Um, there is still kind of a mini committee, you know, cause obviously are oftentimes it’s like, you know, maybe it’s just you making the decision maybe for small transactional things, but if you’re talking about mortgage or insurance, you know there’s a, there’s a family, there’s a spouse, there’s probably something else involved in that. So you’ve got these little mini decision making. So you again, you need to to, you know, somebody who’s probably doing the research and then they collectively are making a decision. So you still need that and you still need to build out that decision support system in your content. So I think content always is a, there’s a close number two.
MC: Yeah, that’s an I and the sales enablement content is, and if you do it right, right, you can, you can create sales enablement content
MC: or build a business case type content in a d at the same time that you can use that content in a public manner. Do attract traffic, right? You can kill two birds with one stone in that scenario. Sometimes you’re building like very specific, you know, build a business case type content, but even still, it’s its content available on your website. Those people move down the funnel, it’s going to increase conversion or whatever else. So, I mean, yeah, you can’t, you cannot underestimate the, or undervalue the importance of, of good content and, and the, you know, br, as you always say, there’s no such thing as free traffic folks. So, um, you know, I think a lot of people still to this day, which boggles my mind, talk about organic traffic as if you didn’t pay for it, you paid for it. Um, you might not pay for it. It might be vastly cheaper than clicking you an ad. Words click or a Facebook click or whatever else. But like you’re paying for it regardless whether it’s the paying for the content itself or your content marketing manager or whatever else. So it’s an investment like, you know, like any other show for sure.
BR: You’re, you’re definitely, it’s an equal, equal equation. So you’re, you’re paying per click on on that and you still have to have a destination page. But yeah, if you’re doing SEO or whatever, you’re going to pay for the Seo engagement and then you’ve got to pay for the end of the actual content production. And so it’s going to be, so when you put everything apples to apples, it’s gotta be about, you know, the Roi of that. Um, but you’re, the upfront costs are going to be pretty comparable, so it’s kind of what you do with them longterm. Okay. So not to make this a two longer podcast. Um, I think once we get to that level, unless you kind of have some silver bullets in here, I think after that it’s very contextual, right? About your number one, your industry, your product, your service, what you’ve got set up.
BR: Um, and then, and, and probably the best advice is to go back to your, your bullseye approach and say, Hey, do that so that you can figure out those little tests and then you can go figure out, okay, where am I going to run those tests? Because at this point, you’re sort of, you’ve got a good stable platform, you’ve got the content, you’ve got the, uh, the destinations to support and enable the sale, uh, and the movement through the funnel. And now you’re kind of thinking about traffic. And that’s like, do I go to ad words? Do I rely on Seo? Uh, do I go to social media? Do I do a combination? Where is my audience? Do I do PR? Pr is probably often neglected. We’re putting more and more PR strategies into our digital marketing because what used to be, Hey, get me in, you know, the, the, the local newspaper, the Chicago Tribune or the Wall Street Journal, whatever, those were physical publication. Now it’s all digital. So it’s all part of the digital strategy. And so that PR pieces is coming back with fury. And we need that on almost every single engagement. So, um, so what are your thoughts in that next level? To me it starts to get really tactical and you got to go through that bullseye exercise. I think before you can really kind of figure out how to allocate the remaining dollars you have left.
MC: Yeah. The only other thing that I think you’d be included in that next level thing and said, okay, let’s say in a scenario in which you are generating a, a pretty significant number of leads and you’re looking at, um, you know, but you’re not closing enough deals. Uh, you know, it might be the next level, in which case we get back to the human capital thing. You know, is it time to take that money and invest in your sales team? Um, and so that’s another opportunity where there might be enough money on the table or, or for that matter, maybe you’re, I don’t know, you’re a unicorn and you’re generating enough sales. But like what you’re not doing is, is like, uh, taking advantage of the fact that you’re leveraging the, um, you’re the leads that you’re generating over a longer period of time. So maybe you’re investing in email marketing or a way to generate more value from the leads that you’re already generating.
MC: So that’s a good thing to look at as well. So if you’re generating, just for argument’s sake, a thousand leads a month and you’re only activating 2% of them while man, 1% more activation rate, it’s going to get you the return that you’re looking for. So maybe it’s not time to invest in new channels, but it’s in time to invest in either technology people or a combination thereof to gain more value from the leads you’re already generating. So I think the, the inclination from a marketing perspective, if you’re being, if what you’re being charged to do is generate more revenue, even if you’re just the marketing team, don’t look to the lead Gen portion. The top of the funnel is like the only thing that you can effect. Um, I think it’s really important to sit back and assess, you know, what is going to get you the most return for every dollar that you spend, obviously.
MC: And that might not be on quote unquote marketing. It might be on marketing to people already in the funnel. You know what I mean by that is like whether you’re nurturing or warming them up or whatever else, or maybe investing at the bottom of the funnel and your sales team. Um, I think that’s like the next level that you have to assess as well. It could not be a channel issue, it might be a conversion issue. And if it’s a conversion issue, then you’ve got to find where in the funnel is the sticky point or you know, where the people are getting stuck. And then you can leverage those dollars to, uh, to smooth that out a little bit to make it a cleaner and better experience. The only
BR: thing, you know, I come from a background, uh, of, of sales and, and even though we’re in the marketing business, man, if the moment you start generating leads, um, I can guarantee your highest Roi would be perfecting your sales process. Like, I mean from the beginning under, if you’re only getting 10 leads a month, um, you should even, you know, um, you should have some sort of sales process in place. And if you’re not, I guarantee you you will, you will not get the same lift that you could out of those 10 leads a month. So the moment, uh, any of your marketing spend starts to generate, no kidding leads. Uh, you got to start diverting some of those dollars to making sure that your sales processes is right. So marketing departments like step over into the sales, make sure, um, you know, you don’t want to make an adversarial but make that those salespeople appreciate the leads are doing the right thing with them, um, and are, are moving them towards a sale.
BR: Because at the end of the day when the revenue doesn’t hit, um, I don’t know why this is, but often the CEO, uh, switches his glance to marketing instead of sales. So, so do a little push in there and figure out how you can help those sales folks be a really successful and just value, um, you know, the, the leads that are generated there and understand them. We run into this all the time too. Like, it’s really important to educate your salespeople, like, how are these leads generated? Um, and, and what are you getting, right? So often they think, oh, if I get a lead, this person must want to buy my widget. Like right now, no, probably not the case. Right? And they need to really kind of understand that so they don’t get frustrated with your leads. These are not referrals. These are not like, my best friend is going to come over here and buy a widget from you because we’re best friends. Uh, you know, you’re going to have to do some work and, and so anyways, push into sales and help them out. Um, and, and become buddies in and find out what they need. Right. And when I say help them out, I mean that in a, in a back and forth way. Like find out what they need.
MC: Yeah. And I, yeah, just like you said, an inverse way, you know what you, it, you have to be open to the idea as a marketer that may be the leaves that you’re sending them aren’t what there aren’t, what they need aren’t what they’re looking for. Maybe they’re too early in the process, just like you said or, um, or it’s a different type of lead or you know, whatever it might be. But if you’re not having that conversation between your sales and marketing team, then you’ll never know. The right hand never knows what the left hand is doing. And I know Br, you and I could talk about like the, the topic of uniting sales and marketing all day in a separate, a separate task. All right, so let’s,
BR: that’s a good place to end it. Uh, so let’s wrap that up. As always, we would
BR: love for you to share this out with your friends and your colleagues. Um, and leave any comments on iTunes, give us ratings. That just helps us, uh, things move up and move out better for us and we’ll keep pushing out some contents. So have a great one. See You, Mike.